My first class in seminary was a study on the book of Galatians. Dr. Mark Baker is a Duke graduate but his real credentials were earned when he taught four years at a bi-lingual high school in Tegucigalpa, Honduras. There, he was able to share the message of grace to people who were bound by religious rules and regulations - something that was all too common in the Galatian church during Paul's ministry. Mark, like Paul, was able to reveal the life-giving message to people hungry for Jesus.
2,000 years ago, the early church was infected with a group called the Judaizers who can best be described as the religious legalists of their day. Their focus wasn't the message of grace that Jesus came to share. Their focus was all about behavior, about doing the “right things” that they said were necessary to get closer to God (and get further ahead of people who didn't "do" religion as good as them). You were considered a "good Christian" if you followed a prescribed list of do's and dont's.
That's holy bunk.
Living as a Christian means understanding what Jesus came to teach. It's living in the knowledge that Jesus Christ is our life and that we can allow him to live through us. The gospel, then, is a person named Jesus not a performance. It’s a relationship, not a list of rules.
Like the legalists who infect our churches today, their methods looked legitimate on the outside. Here's how it worked:
New Christian: "It's great to be a new believer!"
Legalist: "Isn't it? I'm so glad you've turned your life over to Jesus! Now, the real work begins..."
New Christian: "Work? I didn't know work was part of this new life. Tell me more."
Legalist: "You want to be a good Christian, right?"
New Christian: "Well, sure..."
Legalist: "Well, the way you become a good Christian is to follow this list of rules that we want to give you – it’s God’s Law and you have to keep these rules in order to really grow and move forward. Now that you’re saved you’ll want to get started right so we’re going to tell you the things you need to do in order to become a really strong and good Christian.”
When Paul heard that the Judaizers were spreading this "performance-driven" Christianity, he went into a rage and made sure people heard the truth. We should do the same thing. As we hurl grace all over our community, we help people understand the freedom found in grace. In the same breath, we need to warn against the bondage found in rules like daily Bible reading, long prayer sessions, and church attendance. None of those things are bad but when people view them as obligations, we throw grace out the window. The new believer who has fallen in love with Jesus turns his attention away from Him and spends all his time focusing on his behavior. The face of Jesus fades into the background and a list of religious rules emerge as the focal point of the new Christian’s life, at which point the modern-day-Judaizers pat each other on the back on move on in search of another victim.
Paul reacted this way: "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting him who called you by the grace of Christ for a different gospel” (Galatians 1:6). Jesus came to give life and give life more abundant (John 10:10). The new life is all about grace and relationships - not rules and regulations. There's nothing we can do to earn His grace - it's a gift He offers freely (Ephesians 2: 8-9).
Beware of legalists who say that "good" Christians become "better" Christians through a list of performance-driven standards. You are a child of God and He loves you because you are you - not because of what you do.
2010 now just two days away. I'm not a real "resolution" guy but I'm pretty
passionate about a few things I want to see happen in the next 365 days.
1. WRI...
33 comments:
Jesus came to save sinners. I remember a lecture in one of Dr.Gordon Fee’s classes in which he spoke on the book of Philemon. He overlay a comment by Martin Luther as he teared-up taking about Paul’s plea to Philemon to accept and restore Onesimus. Luther said:
“If you are a preacher of Grace, then preach a true, not a fictitious grace; if grace is true, you must bear a true and not a fictitious sin. God does not save people who are only fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly. For he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here we have to sin. This life is not the dwelling place of righteousness but, as Peter says, we look for a new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. . . . Pray boldly-you too are a mighty sinner." (Weimar ed. vol. 2, p. 371; Letters I, "Luther's Works," American Ed., Vol 48. p. 281- 282)
Perhaps those of us who teach grace, not fictitious grace, should once again remind the church to take a risk…love insanely, give hilariously and sin boldly!
After a year of depression (2001) I have been stuck in galations ever since. You see to make a long story short self-righteousness led to suicidal ideation or self-righteousness led to a 12 gauge in the mouth.Been fine ever since I got rid of my older brother ways.Like the older brother in the parable of the prodical son.
Well, Darrin, I know from experience that you love good discussion and dialogue. So here it goes.
Good job, Darrin, explaining the difference between legalism and grace. You did a great job explaining the love of God and how nothing we can do good will make God love us more and nothing we can do bad will make God love us less. Of course, these are my words and summation of your thoughts. You did well explaining "justification". So, in what you said, I find myself saying, "yes". However, it has left me again with questions. So I say, "Yes, but..."
Is all work bad and legalistic? I realize we don't work for God's love, approval, validation, grace, etc. We already have it. I get that clearly!
However, since Jesus forgave us from our sins and God's love is unconditional... is that it? Does the story stop there? Is that the full counsel of God’s Word? Is that the only part of the story?
Isn't worship, repentance, seeking, searching, meditating, obedience, confessing, giving, serving, praying, feeding the poor, taking care of the orphans and widows, go into the world, forsaking not the gathering together, admitting our powerlessness to our addictions, making a decision to turn our wills and lives over to God, making a searching and fearless inventory, admitting our wrongs, making a list of persons we have harmed, etc., some form of work? I realize we don't do these as legalistic do’s and don’t to get the approval of some god, etc. We don’t do them for the love of God either, but don’t we do them because of the love of God? Doesn’t His love compel us? Aren’t these obedience issues?
In other words, what about “sanctification?” I know, another theological word. We know how God views us because of the finished work of Christ (declaring us righteous). But what about our ongoing responsibility to grow and mature into His likeness with the help of the Holy Spirit, etc.? Isn’t discipleship work? What do we do with Philippians 2:12 (NIV): “Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed - not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence - continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.” What do we do with this passage? What do we do with “put off” and “put on”? I can keep going with many scriptures, but I think I have made my point. The New Testament, well for that matter, the Old Testament as well, is full of God’s loving words, values, ways, etc., and He invites us to follow and obey Him.
Once again, I realize we do not do these things for God’s love and approval. We have that already! But isn’t God’s Word clear that following Christ is indeed about “following” and “obedience” because of God’s love? Didn’t Jesus Himself say, “Leave your life of sin”? Isn’t that a form of work? Once again, isn’t obedience work? Obedience certainly isn’t legalism, is it?
Thanks for considering these thoughts and questions. And especially thank you in advance for responding to them.
Hello any and everyone. I was thinking that Galatians deals with Paul defending salvation by grace, and not by the addition of any religious work or act we might do
. And the book of James dealing with another equally important truth, I.e , that our new life in Christ is proved by the works on our lives.
1st Cor 3 also deals with what the Lord calls "the carnal" Christian.
A real balance of salvation. By grace, not by works, and yet our works proving our faith, with room for the times when we are not walking as we ought to walk.
The whole counsel as Paul says in Acts 20.
God bless us all with the knowledge of K
Jesus Christ.
"sin boldly"? How about "go and sin no more"
To not sin boldly is to lie to yourself that you didn't commit a sin when in fact you did. We are all natural sinners (imperfect but perfectly sinful) in this world. The aim is to thrive for perfection but to admit as humans it is impossible for us to not sin. To believe that it is possible on earth to not sin will lead one to inner strife. Accept your shortcomings, boldly live your human nature in truth then true grace will be given. Ask and it shall be given with faith.
Scott,
Thanks for the dialogue. Good stuff. Here are my thoughts:
Isn't worship, repentance, seeking, searching, meditating, obedience, confessing, giving, serving, praying, feeding the poor, taking care of the orphans and widows, go into the world, forsaking not the gathering together, admitting our powerlessness to our addictions, making a decision to turn our wills and lives over to God, making a searching and fearless inventory, admitting our wrongs, making a list of persons we have harmed, etc., some form of work? I realize we don't do these as legalistic do’s and don’t to get the approval of some god, etc. We don’t do them for the love of God either, but don’t we do them because of the love of God? Doesn’t His love compel us? Aren’t these obedience issues?I don't think so. I think all of the actions you listed are natural outgrowths of our spiritual journey - a journey that is, hopefully, marked with signposts of grace along the way.
Regarding Philippians 2:12, Paul was speaking to an audience who needed to be reminded of grace without works. Because of legalists, Christian converts were slipping into a performance-driven mindset. Paul knew that these issues were going to create a tension. When he talks about "working out their salvation", I think Paul wants them to explore the tension between grace and works. Rather, why/how obligatory works fly in the face of "works" that are sourced in grace.
Didn’t Jesus Himself say, “Leave your life of sin”? Isn’t that a form of work? Once again, isn’t obedience work? Obedience certainly isn’t legalism, is it?Obedience can flow out of legalism or grace. Leaving our life of sin happens as we learn more and more about His love and grace. I use the following as a meditative prayer throughout the day to remind me of His love for me: "[I, we] are His beloved and His desire is for [me, us]" (Song of Solomon 2:16).
Thanks for your thoughts!
preach it brother!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The problem is that legalism, in its desire to serve God, insists that “works of repentance” be offered as proof that an internal change has occurred in the life of the Believer. The “fruit inspector” mentality begins to emerge, and the notion of “work out your own salvation” fades into the background. In the mind of the legalist “The whole counsel of God” is morphed and becomes code for “Let me teach you the whole counsel of God” with a hidden belief that Antinomianism is creeping into the minds of anyone who teaches “Sola gratia.”
Dan, any chance that you could site a real example of "antinomianism"
Dan, I have no desire to be a fruit inspector, neither have any of my comments suggested that. Jesus made it clear in Matthew that we should produce fruit in keeping with repentance. I do have a question for you. Are you suggesting that a repentant heart does not change our mind, heart, and actions?
God is my source of authority as He speaks by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God. I am only trying to understand these discussions through this lens.
Are you by any chance speaking out of hurt from those who have judged you and others unfairly? Not everyone who teaches God's Word and inviting people to follow Jesus do so with judgment or legalism. This line of argument is getting old and tiring for me. Maybe I should stop posting here. No matter how clear I state this, it seems to be overlooked.
According to some of the comments, it seems like there isn't a good church anywhere to be found. I think the answer is to become the kind of church that God wants us to be without bashing everyone else. I do this sometimes as well... and God lovingly convicts my heart.
I am against judgment and legalism as well. However, I don't think that faithfully teaching God's Word in love and accuracy means legalism and judgmentalism. My question in regard to the whole counsel of God's Word means the whole counsel of God's Word... all of Scripture properly used in the purpose that God meant. It seems that you read something into my statement other than what I intended and stated. I have no desire to be the one to "Let me teach you the counsel of God", as if I have all the answers and everyone else is wrong. What arrogance and pride! I am against this spirit as well.
It seems that some buttons are possibly being pushed, defensiveness is possibly happening, misunderstanding is possibly taking place, and reading into comments is possibly occurring.
Thanks, again, for letting me share my thoughts.
Scott, thank you for sounds like wisdom from above.
Darrin, thanks for your answers to my questions.
I have worked hard in my posts to clearly explain where I am coming from. My questions are not coming from legalism. I am not talking about working to get the approval or validation from God. I am not talking about “do’s and don’ts.” I am not talking about judgmentalism. I am not talking about performance-based activity. I am not talking about workaholism. I am not talking about fear of failure, rejection issues, performance-orientation, or the like. I am not talking about working to receive the love of God. I am not talking about shame and condemnation. I am not talking about people, pastors, or evangelists who do stupid things like standing on a box with a bullhorn screaming in the city square that God hates fags. I am not talking about pastors standing in the pulpit manipulating, shaming, and condemning people. I am not talking about using legalism to produce obedience. I get these things!! I am in agreement with you on these issues. I realize we are on a spiritual journey. I understand the love and grace of God!!
I am just trying to simply understand something. Jesus says in John 14:15: “If you love me, you will obey what I command."
John 14:21: “Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me.”
John 14:23: “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching.”
John 14:24: “He who does not love me will not obey my teaching.”
And by the way, there are many scriptures like these.
Does Jesus really mean this? Is this legalistic of Jesus? Is this not grace-oriented? Is this not marked by sign-posts of grace?
James 1:22-27: “Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it - he will be blessed in what he does. If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.”
James 2:17: “In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.”
James 2:26: “As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.”
What about James? Is this legalistic of James? Is this the opposite of grace and love?
I asked earlier in the blog, “Are these obedience issues?” You said, “I don’t think so.” I totally respect your opinion. However, I am confused, really perplexed. Jesus said, “If you love me, you will obey what I command.” Is this figurative or does He really mean it? My list of things in the previous blog were all commands… the teachings of Christ and teachings found in the Bible.
I respect and love you my friend!
Just out of curiosity can somebody define "word of God".Is that the bible or Jn.1:1
Word? Bible or Jesus? Yes. And depending on context, it can be either. This is my understanding
Scott, I understand your frustration. I also understand what it means to ask the question “Did Jesus really mean what he said?” My response is “of course he did.” Just as God has commanded that we obey his laws (the Ten Commandments), Jesus also has instructed us to keep his commandments (Love God and your neighbor as yourself). But the deeper question is “Can I do this?”
You asked if a repentant heart changes us. My answer is “yes” and “no.” There is no “magic” in repentance. Repentance is not something we “do” in order to right ourselves with God. The thing that changes us is a relationship with Jesus, and thereby a friendship with the Godhead itself. The disciples, as far as I can tell, were never led to Christ through a “sinner’s prayer.” Jesus simply beckoned them “Come, follow me.” It was their “nets” they left, not their sins.
Scott, you have stated that “ I am against judgment and legalism as well. However, I don't think that faithfully teaching God's Word in love and accuracy means legalism and judgmentalism.” It is your use of the word “accuracy” that makes me wonder how you would understand grace because within the concept of “accuracy” is an entire nest of assumptions about legalism and judgementalism. The application of God’s Word to a person’s life isn’t “accurate.” It’s messy, it’s sloppy and it makes us wrestle with God like Jacob wrestled with the angel.
I apologize if you think I’ve read too much into your statements. All I can say is that I’ve read and interpreted only what I can read and know. It is the way I see and hear your argument.
Buttons will always be pushed because we are people who are trying to explain ourselves. We “see through a glass darkly,” but we are encouraged by the Scriptures not to become weary in well doing. Keep probing, Scott. If done with humility, the Spirit of God will lead all of us.
Pastor Grenier,
First let me say what a privilege it is to chat with you on this blog. It isn’t all that common for a minister of your reputation to engage in this kind of mud wrestling. More often than not, people like you are found in convention halls, surrounded by an entourage of groupies made up of social and political dignitaries. It intrigues me that I should find you slumming here. Nevertheless, let me welcome you.
You asked if there was any chance I could site an example of Antinomianism. Did you want a historic example, or one of a more contemporary flavor? Actually, you could probably Google the word and come up with a lot of historic references all by yourself.
Dan, you made mention to Scott to probe with humility. Are you demonstrating humility in the way you communicate with Pastor Grenier? Is this the kind of humility you are recommending? It sounds very sarcastic and arrogant. I could be totally wrong, though.
Once again, I think you misunderstood Scott. It might be helpful if we try to believe the best about one another instead of assuming the worst and placing our baggage on someone else. This is so unhelpful for good, mature, and loving dialogue.
By the way, Dan, I can't find any mention to the "sinner's prayer" anywhere in this blog? Where did that come from? Once again, it seems as if you are reading things into comments that don't apply.
It seems as if Scott made it very clear that he was not in a position to have all the answers. Accuracy in preaching means to approach the text with humility and try to study and do proper exegesis and teach faithfully with the intention of the original authors and intent of God with proper application for today. There is no one that is perfect and can claim to do it perfectly. To assume that Scott's statement meant that he can do it perfectly and with total accuracy is a gross misunderstanding of what he said! You said, "It’s messy, it’s sloppy and it makes us wrestle with God like Jacob wrestled with the angel." Absolutely! No one said on this blog that it was easy, clean, and instant.
And if Jesus tells us to follow His commandments, it obviously means that he will give us the strength, power, and ability to do them.
Scott,
I think we are saying the same thing.
Does Jesus really mean this [follow my commands]? Is this legalistic of Jesus? Is this not grace-oriented? Is this not marked by sign-posts of grace?I think that the message of Jesus has, and always will be, grace. Following His commands is a natural outflow of his His grace toward us. Jesus was saying that the evidence of our understanding of His love will be that we follow his direction. His love...our understanding...our obedience.
James 2:17: “In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.”
James 2:26: “As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.”
What about James? Is this legalistic of James? Is this the opposite of grace and love? No...not the opposite. James says that knowing and experiencing the Spirit (faith in His love) flows into grace-filled activity (works).
I asked earlier in the blog, “Are these obedience issues?” You said, “I don’t think so.” I think it's fair to say that we interpret "obedience" as something that we "have" to do, whether or not we want to. The obedience God expects of us is the result of our acknowledgment of His love. Again, He loves...we understand and accept it...we are obedient to His guidance and instruction.
Good morning one an all. Thank you for the welcome Dan. My earlier request and question to about "antinomianisn" was a real question to you. I was wondering if you have any current examples of "antinomianisn"
It has been a problem in the body of Christ in the past, and was interested in your awareness of it now. Thx Dan
Thanks Darrin. Very helpful.
Jim, my response to Scott’s line of thinking may indeed have been misunderstood. I struggle with words and their meaning as much as anyone. Language is cumbersome and has probably lost much of its objectivity many eons ago at the Tower of Babel. Each of us has our own “lens” that we now see things through. As I read words and as I think about their meaning, I reach across a very wide gulf. For example, it’s my belief that “placing our baggage on someone else” is not necessarily a bad thing, but rather the inevitable process of trying to understand and trying to convince people of our view. We obviously see “accuracy” in different terms too. My comments to Scott about humility were to encourage him not to shrink from entering the discussion. Failure to engage others in the world of ideas has the effect of dulling the senses.
Jim, I was not suggesting that Scott was deficient in his understanding of “accuracy.” In fact, what I said was that “it makes me wonder.” I thought there was a nest of assumptions in his selection of that term. To my mind his selection of the word contains the categories of “legalism and judgmentalism.” Therefore, it seems to me that Scott by definition includes “legalism and judgmentalism” in his desire to be free of it.
Hope this makes some sense to you.
Dan, you commented: "To my mind his selection of the word contains the categories of 'legalism and judgmentalism.' Therefore, it seems to me that Scott by definition includes 'legalism and judgmentalism' in his desire to be free of it."
I certainly want to be free from any form of judgmentalism and legalism that remains in my life. Absolutely! You are right.
However, my blogs over and over again the last few days make it clear that I am against this. You are reading into my words, even after I have explained them over and over again. You are interpreting them the way you want, no matter what I say.
So, if you don't believe what I say, even after explaining and making it very clear, I find this a waste of my time. Listening skills are so important in proper communication and so is believing what the other person is clearly and painfully communicating.
This "reading whatever you want", regardless of what the other person says, in my opinion, makes for immature behavior, dysfunctional dialogue, and one way communication.
Dan, you win! Have fun. I wish you the best! I am done with this conversation!
Actually, Jim, thank you for understanding, listening well, and believing what I clearly communicated throughout these blogs.
It wasn't that difficult. I thought you were simple and straightforward.
24601 will forever be pursued by those who want justice.
24601
I have been reading all of these posts and I finally need to speak up.
I found this on the internet about this number on http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=24601.
"It is now a term to describe those who are punished extensively for a small crime and it is best used when randomly breaking out into song."
"Jean Valjean's prisoner number. Used by buffoons on the internet to imply they have a modicum of class and civility, when really they can't tie their shoes without drooling all over themselves."
Dan, what a blatant misunderstanding of people and you also have a terrible victim mentality. It just ain't right to twist people's words.
I realize, Jon, that it was a rather arcane reference. Although, I’m not sure how you’ve inferred a psychosis of victimhood from it. If you’re up to it, I like to hear your rationale. Besides, it sounds like you might need to vent.
Dan, your comment wasn't understood by few. It was not mysterious either. It was actually understood rather clearly. I have no need to vent. You have done a good job already expressing where you stand on things. And according to how you respond to the other bloggers, it doesn't seem like you would understand, accept, or believe what I say anyway. But regardless, you are a brother in Christ, we can stand on the essentials, and I respect you and wish you the best!
Okay, I thought I wasn't going to comment anymore. I just couldn't help myself. Sorry.
Even though it seems that Dan's understanding of justice is an unfair treatment of someone in a judgmental and legalistic way, like Inspector Javert's ardent pursuit of Jean Valjean in Les Miserables (hence his "24601 will forever be pursued by those who want justice" comment). I could be wrong, but that is what keeps coming up all through his comments, as well as others on this blog.
I would love to recommend this article that tries to summarize a biblical understanding of justice so we as followers of Christ can use the word it in a better context. Biblical justice seems to capture the idea of the shalom of God and the Kingdom of God, not some cruel and barbaric, judgmental and legalistic form of thinking.
http://ochuk.wordpress.com/2008/04/23/towards-a-biblical-understanding-of-justice/
For whatever it is worth, I offer this for your consideration. In the essentials, unity. In the non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
About six months ago I listened to a fantastic teaching from Tim Keller, author and pastor. It was called "Doing Justice." It goes along with my last post. And by the way, I am very interested in this kind of justice. If you are interested, you can find it here.
http://theresurgence.com/r_r_2006_session_eight_audio_keller
The blurb about this teaching goes like this.
"Four questions are fleshed out in this session. First, what is justice according to the Bible? Second, what is doing justice according to the Bible? Thirdly, who should be doing justice? Lastly, how can you be one of the people that does justice? These questions and a walk through the book of Proverbs will develop a biblically faithful approach to justice. The Biblical view of justice is counter to that of what we see in Western society. This mp3 from Dr. Tim Keller will stretch and hopefully encourage you to do justice not out of guilt but out of joy. Through faithfulness in doing justice the culture will begin to notice and hear the gospel that you preach."
Good audio Scott. I remember Oz Guinness once saying at L’Abri “the more you read the less you have to read.”
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